Marshall JCM 900`s ???????

[slayer]

Ok fellas, fair enough and I agree Pete, I am waiting on the best tone-quality and price deal for sure as I am very patient bro!! I didn`t use to be, but you learn to be through experince. Jack.

[adrenaline junkie]

+1.

+2 The Dual Reverb JCM 900's used them, the Jubilee's used them, the 2210/2205 used them, and so does the JMP-1. Don't worry about the diodes, all that matters how it sounds.

[siggy14]

Don't get me started on my 'diode clipping' rant... in my opinion, you should judge an amp on three criteria:

1) TONE
2) reliability
3) cost

If it fits all three above, who gives a flying shit whether the tones are generated with diode clipping, tubes, modelling, radioactive elements not found in nature or whatever? WHY does it matter if it sounds good, doesn't break down and is in your price range?

BTW, some of the most coveted tones in history were made with tube amps and solid state devices pushing the front end - many of which had diodes in them. If you're going to be on an anti diode path, then don't use any tube screamers or super overdrives (or 99% of the overdrive pedals on the market, as they use diodes).

Ok, got that off my chest.

Pete

OK time to clear up some bad advice here, sorry twister and JC, but i need to set the record straight, there is a difference between boosting a amp with a tube screamer and diode clipping. But first let me start off by saying that i have nothing against diode clipping, like i said i Keep my JMP-1 which has diode clipping.

Most of what makes a tube amp in demand is the power section, it is what warms it up and stops it from going shrill at high volumes. I love putting pedals in front of tube amps, i dont always like pre amp tube distortion.

OK with that being said, there is a big difference between a amp like the 2210 that has diode clipping and a JCM800 2203 that you use a pedal to boost. So here is a break down.

Amps like the 2210 actualy have diodes that create distortion, besides the tubes these little diodes are taking a clean signal and distorting it. Yes you can still put a tube screamer in front of a 2210 and get more distortion because it does have pre-amp tubes.

Now understand most musicians that take a tube screamer and put it in front of say a 2203 are not using the actuall distortion part (diolde clipping) of the pedal.

Basicaly what they are doing is keeping the distortion (drive) all the way down and and jacking the level so high that it is forcing the Pre-amp tubes to distort more. This means the tube screamer is taking your clean signal level from your guitar and jacking it up but not distorting it.

There are other ways to jack the signal up, like using a external EQ with the level jacked up will give you the same effect, this is what stryper did to get there pre-amps to distort more. However alot of external EQ's will not jack the level as much as tube screamers and some EQ's will jack it more, depends on who makes it.

Certain pickups will also make a amp scream more, like EMG 81's or a X2N because the level comeing from them is very hot (high), not as hot as putting a tube screamer with the level jacked up, but damn close.

So you see there is a difference between diode clipping and using a tube screamer to make the pre amp tubes scream more.

With my old 2204 i had two tube screamers, one was set with no drive and the level all the way up to give me a medium gain and the second was set with drive and leval all the way up to give me a heavier gain. Both sounded great, just depended on how much distortion i needed.

Once again, there is nothing wrong with diode clipping, that warm tone you get is from the power amp.

[siggy14]

PS- Part of the reason the 2210's and the JCM900's sound thinner has nothing to do with the diodes or the pre-amp section at all. It has to do with the fact that Marshall tried to cheap out and they cut one of the capacitors out of the power amp section which in return made it sound thinner and not as much UMPH to it.

The 2205 however had the right amount of capacitors so it sounded good, I am not sure if the JCM900's where the same way, but I tell you out of my two SLX's i liked the 50 watt version better.

If you go with the JMP-1 make sure to get a power amp you can bias, half of what makes marshalls sounds so great is the power amp distortion on top of the preamp distortion. Power amps from Mesa and other companies with a fixed bias are usualy biased cold so they wont sounds as good unless all you want is preamp distortion.

[adrenaline junkie]

Where did they give a bad advice?

I agree that there is a difference between boosting the signal with a tubescreamer, or diodes, but even when you've got the drive most of the way down on a pedal, you're still clipping the signal, even a little with op-amps/diodes. That's why they boost the preamp more than some EQ's, Even with the drive all the way down, it's still not a completely clean unclipped signal. So it's not like doing it one way is totally SS free, while the other is mostly solid state.

For the record, The SL-X doesn't use any diodes, it's got a 4th preamp tube. The Dual Reverb and Mk III JCM 900's, Channel switching 900's, Jubilee's and JMP-1 have diodes.

I've had all of the diode infested Marshalls, 3 Jubilees (Still have a 2555) 6 JCM 900s (Still have an SL-X), 2 JMP-1's (Still have one) and 3 2205/2210's (Just sold my 2210 last week) and I prefer the Jubilee over all of them, including the SL-X which has no diodes. What they said is still good advice, if it sounds good, who cares if it has diodes in it.

[slayer]

Great stuff guys!! I will let my ears decide for sure and I am learing a ton here and that is what makes this site so great Jack.

[siggy14]

Where did they give a bad advice?

I agree that there is a difference between boosting the signal with a tubescreamer, or diodes, but even when you've got the drive most of the way down on a pedal, you're still clipping the signal, even a little with op-amps/diodes. That's why they boost the preamp more than some EQ's, Even with the drive all the way down, it's still not a completely clean unclipped signal. So it's not like doing it one way is totally SS free, while the other is mostly solid state.

For the record, The SL-X doesn't use any diodes, it's got a 4th preamp tube. The Dual Reverb and Mk III JCM 900's, Channel switching 900's, Jubilee's and JMP-1 have diodes.

I've had all of the diode infested Marshalls, 3 Jubilees (Still have a 2555) 6 JCM 900s (Still have an SL-X), 2 JMP-1's (Still have one) and 3 2205/2210's (Just sold my 2210 last week) and I prefer the Jubilee over all of them, including the SL-X which has no diodes. What they said is still good advice, if it sounds good, who cares if it has diodes in it.

The bad advice was saying there is no difference between a diode clipping amp and a amp that you use a pedal to boost. If you notice i agree with them on play what sounds good to you.

Yes i know the SLX's have a fourth Pre-amp and no diode clipping, however I am not sure if marshall cheaped out on the power amp section like they did with the 2203's with horzontal inputs or 2210's and the JCM900's.

[adrenaline junkie]

I'm not sure they actually cheaped out on the post 84 2203's. They did drop the number of filter caps from 6 down to 5 then down to 3, but I read somewhere a while back that when they were using 6, they were only using 1 side of a 50/50 cap, but the later ones, they started using both sides, giving the same amount of filtering. I could easily be wrong about that though.

One of the things that I think made the 900's sound thinner was the fact that the transformers aren't much bigger than the chokes on the 800's, they're pretty little.

[Racerx2k]

Where did they give a bad advice?

I agree that there is a difference between boosting the signal with a tubescreamer, or diodes, but even when you've got the drive most of the way down on a pedal, you're still clipping the signal, even a little with op-amps/diodes. That's why they boost the preamp more than some EQ's, Even with the drive all the way down, it's still not a completely clean unclipped signal. So it's not like doing it one way is totally SS free, while the other is mostly solid state.

For the record, The SL-X doesn't use any diodes, it's got a 4th preamp tube. The Dual Reverb and Mk III JCM 900's, Channel switching 900's, Jubilee's and JMP-1 have diodes.

I've had all of the diode infested Marshalls, 3 Jubilees (Still have a 2555) 6 JCM 900s (Still have an SL-X), 2 JMP-1's (Still have one) and 3 2205/2210's (Just sold my 2210 last week) and I prefer the Jubilee over all of them, including the SL-X which has no diodes. What they said is still good advice, if it sounds good, who cares if it has diodes in it.

I agree. The Jubilee, I think, has been one of the best amps Marshall has put out. I remember the first time I plugged into one, at a store. I was amazed. I haven't been all that much impressed with Marshalls, since. And I agree about the sound comment. Trust your ears, and screw the naysayers.

[slayer]

I am looking at a 1985 Marshall 2204 Canadian model in mint condition. So, do these have the big transformers and 6 Caps? Thanks-Jack.

[beachjammer]

I bought a new one back in the day and honestly it sucked. The one I tried out before ordering a dual channel model sounded good. The one I got in sounded OK but it tore up on me within 3 months and I couldn't find anyone locally to work on it. Everybody said they were crap and was afraid to touch them. I found a used JCM800 before selling the JCM900 and it smoked the 900 hands down! They were both 50 watt heads and I had to run the 900 on 7 to keep up with the 800 on 2. I ended up selling the 900 within a year and had to take a huge loss on it. I haven't bought a new Marshall since, no matter how good it sounds. I'll either stick to the older ones or a Mesa...

[siggy14]

I am looking at a 1985 Marshall 2204 Canadian model in mint condition. So, do these have the big transformers and 6 Caps? Thanks-Jack.

Well the 50 watt version will only have three on any amp, but yes that is the correct number.

[slayer]

Cool, so in 1985 they still had the big transformers and 3 caps on the 50 watter? So to be such a bother, I just want to make sure if I pull the trigger!! Thanks-Jack.

[siggy14]

yes all the 50 watters in the 80's had the right caps and trans. It was only the 100 watt versions that didnt have the right caps.

I dont know much about the candian versions other then they had metal toggle switches, might have been made different.

You will probaly get more answers at the marshall amp forum

http://www.marshallampforum.com/forum/

[slayer]

Yes, metal toggles, red lettering in the back, and tan cloth in the front and they run 4 or 8 ohm cabs. He just had it serviced with Tung Sol pre`s and Mullard re-issue power tubes. Thanks-Jack.